Ok...I was going to sit down and write out another rambling of questions that came up today. But I changed my mind for a few reasons: 1) You have a paper to write that needs to be approached thoughtfully, carefully, and honestly....you need time to do that; 2) I sensed a bit of 'brain overload' today by the end of class, and would rather let your brains do the thinking on your time; and 3) Instead of my posting questions, I want you to post what your questions are...not so much questions for me to answer (after all, I've done so little of that anyway), but questions for you to ponder as a class of future music educators.
So, by the weekend, post a question... Maybe a philosophical one dealing with the Aesthetic/Praxial/CPME stuff that exploded at the end of class...maybe something not directly related to what we have been talking about but that you feel is applicable to music education...maybe a realization you have come to...maybe something with which you are struggling. Show me and show your colleagues what you are thinking about. And then, post responses.
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So by the end of class today I definitely felt that brain overload that Professor Haltmeier was talking about. I don't know about you guys. I think what did it was this Aesthetic/Praxial/CPME stuff that we left off with. I'm not really sure what that's all about. Do we have to choose which one of these we think like? If so, I don't know if I can choose one. We didn't really get into the CPME view but the other two both sounded right to me.
I need more information about the them though...I know that Aesthetics has to do with the actual sound and creation of the music, and Praxis is something about the making of the music being fun, and it doesn't matter what it sounds like.
I'm not sure if I'm right though...so I don't really know what to think yet.
And does there really have to be all this stuff? Can't we just teach? I dunno...
“Honoring [someone’s] world” is a novel concept. We live in such an extreme age of narcissism and ego-centrism that it is interesting to have an approach based on others. Proff. Haltmeier makes a joke about how we talk from a point of authority and entitlement, but it is an interesting phenomenon. I don’t feel obligated to honor anyone else’s world. Think about your own education, did the teachers have your best interests in mind? Maybe. Or, did they have their best interests for you in mind and their personal interests in mind. Adults especially are notorious for inflicting their beliefs upon the youth of the world –rarely are parents chastised for inundating their children with their personal values, and mores.
So, is their world best for them? Or do we drag them into ours. Then you run into the issue of what is “our” world is. And the philosophy of what is good. Since it all settles down to relativity, we should take the kids into the best reality that we know.
That ended up being a question and somewhat of my answer.
The thing that got me thinking most today was about the debate about if is possible to balance between performance and learning things about the music. I think what most people seemed to think, that the reason it's difficult to balance the two is because of a lack of time. If you are time crunching to learn a song, you aren't going to have time to learn to sight sing and learn about different technique.
During class I kept thinking about my choir in high school, and my choir teacher had almost perfected the balance issue. We had crazy resources in our school - school was almost run by our choir program - almost a quarter of the school was involved. Because of the massive involvement, my teacher was able to make levels. Just like it is here at WCC, freshmen year you are required to be in a entry level choir, and you can't audition for the upper choirs until sophmore year, no matter how talented you are. In this choir we didn't have any concerts besides the 3 school concerts we had a year, but we learned how to sight read, music notation, and technique. Then when you moved on after freshmen year with all this knowledge into noe of the upper choirs, you spent a lot more time performing in the community and else where.
So my question, which did stem that whole train of thought even though it might not necessarily sound related is: How much does having a lot of resources effect the music education kids are being given? Is it necessary?
I thought what Tom said was really interesting. I know exactly what he means when he says all through our lives adults have forced their opinions on us, in values, education, and every aspect of our lives. Have you ever had that English teacher, that after you finished reading a book would ask what your ideas were on what a symbol or illusion meant, and if you didn't agree with them or have the same train of thought as them they would tear your ideas to pieces?? But then, I think that's I would like to try and be different myself - I know what it's like to always be wrong in the eyes of authority figures and for people to expect you to fit into an exact mold of what they want. I realize, that I will always have my own opinions, but I would like to try and gives kids different opporunties and experiences.
(I think I interpreted Tom's question more of along the lines of whether we should open up to other cultures and music and not necessarily follow what we always wanted to do, as we had discussed for so long in class the other day.)
I don't think it's possible to NOT have your own beliefs, dreams, and interests involved in your teaching. It's a part of you. When I teach, I would like to share my personal views with others. But at the same time, as teachers we MUST be able to see and react to the worlds of the students we teach. We must have awareness if we wish to impact them with the world of music as we know it. That's assuming we want to "impact" them at all. This may just be a personal interest of mine :) or is it? IT"S SO GREY IN HERE!
Anyway, my question is, how is this actually helping? Are we going a little overboard with this whole philosophical aspect of teaching? I was expecting a lot more black and white, you know? Like looking at the facts of kids today, where they are coming from, depending on the area, the certain learning disabilities kids have and specific methods that have been employed to overcome them... I want to learn methods to deal with concrete issues. Shouldn't we be sticking to the topics in the case studies and not worrying so much about personal ethics or "transforming ourselves with the Art of Possiblity"... I don't know. Maybe I sound rude, close minded, whatever... but it just seems like most of the class we're on a wild goose chase and we're left to figure out the concrete stuff on our own. Shouldn't we be chasing the goose on our own time? I guess this is something I'm struggling with. I find myself thinking "why does this really matter? We all are individuals and have to and will take things case by case. We will all deal with things differently. I say enough with the questions and on with ways to solve the problems!" Yes, i am an impatient person. Maybe this is just the beginning, they're stimulating our minds and really making us think, then in CP 2 they tell us HOW to think! I certainly don't despise philosophy or thinking outside of the box, but I'm having trouble seeing how it fits right now.
Marie, you read my question correctly, we just answered it differently. I'm on the mind that my opinion is better and thereby I don't need to love and cherish the kid's world of pop music and ethnic upbringing. Meaning no disrespect (even though a lot comes off). I don't want to suppress desire, but the school board isn’t paying me to supplement their Madonna intake (at least I hope they're not, if they are I'll go find another school). I will admit, I'm good at very few things but one of them is quitting. I can find better opportunity elsewhere, or at least try. Many of us would say we want to live our lives for others, but that’s not true. We aren't so hedonistic (I'd hope) as to say the goal of life is pleasure, but we're all in it for ourselves.
Carl sounds like you want to learn the easy stuff (read: practical). However, I would agree that philosophizing (yes, it can be a verb) is only useful when it is reflected in the practical. A utopian society is dandy on paper (read: communism) but always seems to fall through when placed in a "practical" setting (China, and friends).
Whenever I leave CP my head's always spinning and I have all these fantastic thoughts but I have to run to another class and I forget them so here's what's left in my head from today... Who knew that there was so much grey in teaching music? Carlito, you're not 'rude' or 'closeminded,' however I think it's important to remember nothing in life is black and white. If teaching were black and white I don't think we would need CP cause we would just graduate and bam.. we would know how to teach, and that doesn't seem like that's how it's going to go.
My question, (questions) is though, will we ever really know the answers to all these questions and scenarios? For example, no matter how many songs and artists I listen to, I will never be able to define, 'good music." When we are faced with problems in the work-field, are we suppossed to do what makes us happy, what makes the kids happy, or what the administration wants? Is it wrong to compromise your musical taste as a teacher for the first few years so you can please people higher up than you for the time being? .. and then maybe later mold a program to how you want it once you've got the right people on your side and you have your credability to back you up...
We all share our opinions and we all make great points but sometimes I feel like, who am I to try and answer these questions now?
One last thing...The Music Man discussion got me thinking too. Prof. Haltmier asked if maybe the Music Man is a metaphor for where society is musically headed... Do you think the image of a musician will (or maybe it already has) ever be more important than the kind of music being put out by them? Will how musicians live their lives and choose to look start to eat away at the music industry?
I too felt the brain overload at the end of class yesterday. There are always so many questions spinning in my head when I leave CP. I like that the class actually challenges us to think and use our own opinions rather than there being a specific textbook answer. It feels like it's been so long since I've actually used my brain for something worthwhile (I hated high school and memorizing and reciting things over and over for every class).
My question is kind of similar to Brittany's. Will we ever really know the answers to any of these questions? Isn't there only so much we can do and so much we can discuss before we just have to teach and go by our instincts? In my opinion, teaching can never be concrete. I would never sacrifice what I wanted to do or the way I wanted to teach to please someone else. Is it wrong that my first goal will always be the students and not pleasing anyone who is giving me a paycheck?
Also, I really liked the Music Man discussion.
First I would like to comment on one of the quotes we chose from. It was Elizabeth Oerhle's second comment. I do agree how in rudimentary music we should teach ear training and not notation. Her quote is a accord with the Suzuki method. The problem is what happens when students in high school were never taught the rudiments, how do you teach solfege maintain a concert schedule and not kill yourself? I know it can be done. How?
Ok. This doesn't have much (anything) to do with the other posts yet, but was something that really caught my attention in class - the idea that of music as "the most desirable medium or organized aesthetic educatin." Aesthetic is defind as "giving or designed to give pleasure through beauty; of pleasing appearance." Does this mean that music education is all about the flashy outfits and dazzling lights? Is it just a show, or are you actually trying to teach something? I think there's a difference between something that appears beautiful versus something that is beautiful.
I have no idea whether that makes as much sense here as it does in my head, but to me music is about MUCH more than its aesthetic worth. I can't deny that aesthetic is an important part of music - as in the Music Man when the parents loved seeing their kids up on stage, some pleasure can be gained just from watching. On the other end of the spectrum, vocal music performances lose the most when the sound is recorded, because all of the expression and visual intensity that one gets from watching a singer's face/movements are lost. So I definitely appreciate the aesthetic element of music, but don't think that music is necessarily the most desirable medium of organized aesthetic education.
Also, what on earth does aesthetic education mean? Does the word 'aesthetic' imply that music is only an appearance of education? Also, in general, I think the word "most" should be avoided at all costs - extreme adjectives make me nervous. I don't really know how I feel about aesthetic education - thoughts? Can we talk more about what the term really means?
*phew* Now that I've gotten those thoughts out there's room in my brain to think about other peoples' posts. What Marie said about whether or not resources are necessary to achieve a good education really got me thinking. I think that in an ideal situation, the amount of funding a choral program has shouldn't matter, but in the end it usually does matter, at least in terms of ease. In a school that has excellent resources and lots of money and parents who can chaperone for festivals and field trips, etc. the teacher will only have to worry about the students and the music. However if these things are not made readily available to a music teacher, they have to figure out how to come up with them on their own, which means a lot more work, and often less attention/less energy for actual musical instruction. The issue becomes yet another thing to balance into the already crazy schedule - you now need to find the time to set up a fund-raiser and a car wash and a bake sale in addition to preparing for concerts and still teaching the rudiments of music. Yikes!! That sounds really scary. On the other hand [if you succeed], it would be really fun to have a music department on your hands that you personally built up fromt the ground. That would feel so empowering and wonderful - but again, it's a BIG if.
So I guess what I'm saying is that while I don't think excellent resources (financial or otherwise) are necessary to having a great music program, I definitely think they're EXTREMELY helpful, and that there are good chances that things will run much more smoothly if one does have great resources.
HOLA!
The thing that I left class with on the 18th with the ending discussion, and it was on the lines of "is music just black dots on a page, and we just sing or play them and we don't feel anything."
Well, it got me thinking about alot of things in choral pieces that I love. For example, I sung a piece called "Precious Lord" arranged by Arnold Sevier(that has importance) and the piece is beautiful. I sang it everyday in practice and really liked the song and didn't really get into it, until I realized what the song was about and it's history.
The man who wrote the words, wrote them for his wife and children who died in a care accident and he dedicated the song to them. After knowing that I put my emotion and feeling into the song and really got into the piece, and actually it's my favorite choral piece of all time, thus far.
The song at first was black dots on a piece of paper, and I believe that we has humans put meaning into the chords and the words we sing. Once knowing the history I poured emotion into what I was singing and got into the song deeply.
Uh, I'm rambling. Anywho.
My question to you is : Do you watch America's Next Top Model?
America's Next Top Model is on tonight...if you don't know the show, it's a shame. :)
Bye, Professor!
Lord Have Mercy On My Musical Soul. Now as all of you know I usually Participate in class discussions displaying my opinions and comprehension of lessons. However, On wednesdays class I was completely confused by the Aesthetic/Praxial/CPME. So my question is: what exactly is Aesthetic/Praxial/CPME? How does it relate to the class of 2011?
Is it wrong to do music because of more skill than passion?
So I was reading though all the comments, and I have to say, I completely disagree with what meghan said about appearance, and if you take away the visual it takes away from the music. Maybe it's jsut a personal taste thing, but I prefer listening to music without the visual. In some cases it is nice, but in other senarios, I think if too much is going on, it takes away from the piece. If they are wearing something distracting, or someone on stage isn't paying attention or playing with their hair or something - all things that would put my focus on that and not on the music. Maybe this would be a good approach or your ensemble isn't the best sounding group and you want people to half-hear the music it would work... And I also don't think you need faces and other visuals and body language to get the emotion and feeling from a song. I believe that if a performer really believes in what they are performing you will be able to hear it in their voice, or in the way they are playing.
I think I might have read way to much into that and clounded it way to much with my personal opinion, but whatever.
O.k so a realization I had is that even after graduating from a performing arts school I still do not know the fundamentals of music like I should. And one can make music and it sound lovely and wonderful as I do most times when I sing. But on the other hand if I dont know the chord progressions, translation of text, when/where/how it modulates and the different themes /movements, etc in the piece then it's almost meaningless. It has no value especially sice I did not analyze it to see how much work and genius it took the composers. Only after that can I fully appreciate that!
this blog has become sort of confusing so i guess ill comment on the case study we read about on 9/18 concerning performing and learning..
Basically Helen is a POOR music teacher. If she has trouble figuring out how to teach the important fundamentals of music through performance rep, then she is wasting everyone's time and money, and should consider a new line of work. Performing sets mile markers for students. Not only do they learn how to get up in front of and audience, they also learn time management, etc. Music is an art of entertainment. If Helen wants to enrich students with knowledge about a a field (an do nothing but), then she should go teach math or physics, this way her students never have to show anything for what they learned except for on tests and quizzes.
Helen...you're an idiot!
YES WE GET TO ASK THE QUESTIONS!!
I'm going to pose many questions to our class. What are your personal goals once you become a music teacher ? After hearing all of Haltmeier's tales of music teach terror are any of you reluctant to become a teacher in a high school. What do you have to offer that is completely unique to music. Do think you will fulfill your dreams because of the technique of teaching, talent, or the uniqueness you possess.
So thsi is kind of like, a random switch from all the stuff we had been talking about on this blog before...
Earlier I had been paging through the Music Educators Journal that we had been given last week at Ed. Lab, and I came across an article called "American Idol and the Music Classroom: A means of critiqing Music" by Jason Thompson. I'm not that big a fan of the show, but it sounded interesting, so i stopped and read it. The article dealth with a lot of stuff we had talked about in class, including different music that can be taught in the classroom. Thompson was of the opinion, that since there is so much diversity in schools now a days, there should be diversity in the music taught also, and there for pop music is appropriate.
I think the statement he made that was most interesting, is that he believes a lot of teachers don't use popular music in the classroom is because they have no idea how to teach it, or don't understand how to teach it enough. I wondered if this was true. Is it that teachers just don't know how to approach pop music, or is it going back to our debate in opinions about good and bad music? I woul think, that especially younger music educators, that grew up with this kid of pop music wouldnt have so much trouble, so maybe it is them not thinking it is good enough music to teach in the classroom?
Those are just my thoughts on the matter. :)
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